Trigonometry, Revit Parameters, and Scheduling...

I do regret that there hasnt been much going on in the last month or two that has been worth mentioning in a Revit blog... Thats a byproduct of a few jobs being at the wrap up stage, and a couple others being pretty early on. I havent had to craft up many things... Until yesterday. :)

Someone in the office was tasked with finding a linear distance around an arc, where the arc was not a full semi-circle. Furthermore, scheduling said distance, around several windows. Now, recently, i know there have been several posts on AUGI asking for "list parameters," or parameters that are driven by the geometry, but dont inflict the gemometry. I suppose any parameter works, in that sense... As long as its formulated by other parameters, which is what we did here.

We started out here: Some basic formulas regarding chords, arcs, circles, etc. As we wanted to create a formula for a parameter that would derive the arc length, we realized we would need parameters and formulas to provide the necessary values to calculate the arc length. Distance "t" (length from the arc's springpoint to the arcs center point) would be necessary. Likewise, so would the Chord distance. We would need the central angle (Theta) of the arc itself. Obviously, we would need the Radius.

A few things worth mentioning:

As with all Revit families and formulas, we quickly realized that we didnt need all these for the calc. We needed them to constrain things. T, for instance. If you work your way backwards from our end result, the parameter for Length T is never used... But we had to constrain the Reference Lines endpoints to get angle Theta. To constrain them, we needed value T to adjust correctly with the radius and chord changes.

Parameter "360": We still may not need this one. But in a formula, i couldnt figure out how to type in "degrees" as a unit, so i made a static angle parameter, lol. Chime in if theres a way to type in a value like "35 degrees" directly in a formula, haha.

Parameter "CIRC": Well, this was stupid. Im looking at the notes now, and the purpose of CIRC was to establish the circumference, for use in "ARC LENGTH" but it looks like in haste, i simply typed in the formula for CIRC anyway. So CIRC was irrelevant at that point, but the point is, we needed the circumference, one way or another. (Also, yes, i know i GROSSLY estimated Pi, and i couldve used an actual formula to derive it to more accuracy, but cest la vie.)

In any event, we started deriving the formulas... Heres where i had to call in help: Mind you, i was a big math geek back in the day, and like to THINK i still am. You can see in the circle formulas (which i got from http://www.ajdesigner.com/... thanks for the page, its great!) that they derive arch Length as a fucntion of Theta (in degrees) times the Radius. Anyone else have an issue with this? I couldnt wrap my head around how i multiplied degrees and Length, to come up with a mathemtatical unit (besides degree-inch, lol). So i called in a favor:

My good friend Brian (last name with held)is a Math Specialist at a local school district. He happened to be out at happy hour with some other math teachers. So i got him to hand the phone around the Chili's bar, which his teacher friend (Secondary Education math teacher) reminded me that i would have to convert Theta in to a length, using Pi. More accurately, i could take Theta's proportion to the overall circle (360 degrees), and ise that proportion times the circumference of the circle (CIRC), and i could then get the "length" of the arc length.

In finished form, it looks so simple, as the formulas (obviously) make all the reference planes end up in such a fashion that it looks easy to obtain. Maybe it is for you, i dont know... This took a few minutes for me to figure out, i might be slow, haha.

This brings up a host of other Revit questions that we could discuss based on this issue though:

When deriving parameters for scheduling such things, you have to wonder how exactly such things get scheduled. I asked the individual who asked for help: "You want a linear length, but its an arc that has thickness. So obviously the length is different on the inner radius and the outer. This was particularly a question of interest to me, as my first attempt was based on a material takeoff: If i know the cross sectional area of the profile used (the casing profile), then i could simply get the material takeoff in Volume, and divide it by its area in the Project as a Calculated value. I did this, but the number seemed off. Of course, i dont know where such a calculation would place the length. The inside, the outside, or somewhere in between?

So how do we (as an industry) decide HOW we quantify, WHAT we quantify, and who and what will guide such arbitrary decisions? Obviously some of these decisions are based on the manufacturing principles, and how the manufacturers will want take offs... But even from a simple Revit perspective, how will you reign in everyone making such families, so that all calculations are consistant, if nothing else? Id LOVE your thoughts on the matter!

Pardon the typos and spellcheck. I biked here, and the sun is going down... Ill spellcheck this tonight. :)

A few more images from Revit and the site...

As i mentioned previously, rendering wasn't in the scope of the work for the project, so (while we called out materials in the CD set) we had not produced any accurender materials inside the Revit model, nor had we gone to any other app for imagery.

Well, i had some downtime this week, and i wanted to take a shot from the hip to see how they would come out. Ive read all the arguments about accurender... Its slower, it looks cartoonish, etc... And i don't disagree with any of that. But, there's no denying (in my opinion) that there is a perfect elegance in NOT having to leave the program, to get the rendering.

On a process level, i look at it like this: Often times i'll work right in the Revit model while i client is standing behind me. Or, we will be in a conference room with a laptop and a projector. Seeing is believing, you know? Sometimes its great to change on the fly, add in a family here and there, and hit the lo-res-go-button so they can get a feel for it before too much time is invested. I know leaps and bounds have been made with the DWG compatibility, but sitting in the conference room and saying "Hang out for ten minutes while i STC, then export to 3D DWG, open up Max, reload the link, THEN set up a camera, and get around to your rendering. Oh, you wanted the window WHERE??? hang on a second, let me go back..."

The other woe i have with these images... The hardscape. I managed a little down the promenade, in the form of RPC trees, and an RVT light fixture that i had modeled for the job anyway. But renderings really show off what consultants modeled on the team, and which ones don't. Right in front of these buildings is a very nicely done canal, with some ornate site work. If we had it modeled, we could show it off... But alas...

I will say, i have great faith in the Development team that a better renderer is on its way. And if it isn't... I'm plenty fine with Accurender for now. The following are all quickies... I spent a coupld of hours on the whole model attaching materials, a few minutes throwing sun angles at it, and let them render for about 10 minutes each (the larger ones).

Here is a shot from the other side of the canal, which isn't shown. Below is a picture of the actual tower, as it stands. The colors are still slightly off, but i didn't spend too long tweaking them... All in all i like this one. I think i may have a colleague try to photograph the site from this spot, so i can PS the canal in place...

Here is an overhead shot of one of the restaurants. This begins my RPC rant: We have a TON of RPC content, but evidently its not compatibly with Revit. I dumped it all in the standard RPC content folder, and went to make a new RPC family, but only the standard 6 or 8 show up. Then i was heartbroken to find out what RPC peeps cost, LOL! I know, i could PS the people in... But you have no idea what a pet peeve it is of mine to go out and come back in... See above, lol. I know, those paver's are terrible. They were a quickie ground plane. If i get time this week, i may actually model some of the 'scape in.

To continue my ramble... These images (not these specifically, but images of 3D models in general) are very important to me on a personal level. When we all got in to architecture, we spent years in school "learning" about the things that thrust us in to the realm of architect/designer:

*Wanting to see things in section

*Wanting to profess how much sleep we didnt get

*Coffee

*Starting over an hour before the deadline after *12 hours straight of work

*Wanting to mesh sections/Plans/Elevations in to one single drawing with abstract construction lines everywere

*Wanting to sketch on garbage

*Demanding sharp pencils (and ill have you know, they laugh at me at the gym... When i go to pick up a pencil to mark my reps, i pick up the entire bin of pencils at once and turn them upside down... They make fun of me now...)

Does anyone see where i'm going with this? lol... I think its so programmed in to us, to understand that wall section means this space has good lighting, or this space has a tight ceiling. And yet, we show plans, and we show elevations, and we show sections... And who EVER sees an architectural creation in plan or elevation? To an extent, i believe there is a language breakdown between the graphical language we've all been taught to speak in, and the language of the space were creating, which is what our clients are after. My favorite times with Revit, have been showing Revit models to a friend of mine who self-proclaims "I have no idea what I'm looking at when i see a plan... at all." Because when i show this person the models, i do it solely with camera views. In a language they can understand... Eyesight. I know 3D models are nothing knew- as face based visualization models have been around for quite some time- but now that they ARE the Construction Documents, they are no longer as easily sacrificed on the lamb of budgeting.

After all... I walk around my apartment with my eyes. I don't have a plan of it with me... Not all the time, anyway. :) Your thoughts on the subject are always welcome. :)

Autodesk University 2007

I was on the home page for AU07, and i saw this flash animation that said "Schmoozing like a pro," and it made me think: Man, we should all start getting the word out about going to arrange some get together's!

I registered towards the end of last week, along with two of my colleagues from Dal Pos Architects.

This year, in addition to the classes and the lectures, i think it would be great to really mix it up with any of you that will be attending. Certainly, we've all had our struggles in Revit, and we've all come up with fascinating need-based solutions. it would be great to know what others are up to, where their struggles are, and to "share notes" if you will.

I know there is also talk of some extracurricular meetings, that would be great to organize! Steve Stafford has mentioned setting up an Advanced families venue, which i think would be awesome! Joseph Wurcher has mentioned possibly showing Users projects at the Welcoming, which i think would be a great opportunity.

I could see us setting something up for one night on our own, as well. Maybe we could all bring a model to show, and put them up on a wall somewhere with a laptop and a projector? We could do it over a dinner or an after hours thing. If nothing else, it would be great to trade cards and have people to bounce ideas off of when were sitting at our desks the week after, trying to figure out how to model something, and AUGI is having a slow day. We've all been there :) Not to mention, effective ways of sending out the awesome information we get to the rest of the office. Im always looking for better ways to teach! :)

So far, here's what i have going on. Everyone else should post up what time is good, if you want to have a get together of some sort!

MONDAY- I'm arriving at 10am, should be at the venetian by 11ish. The LUG Conference is from 1-5, i believe.

Dinner mtg somewhere on premises...

After 8pm(ish?) is open for whatever...

TUESDAY- Just Reg classes so far.

WEDNESDAY- Just reg classes so far.

THURSDAY- Reg Classes until 4pm

4:30-5:20- Titian 2204- AU Unconfered- Multiple Modeling Strategies

FRIDAY- I think I'm leaving Friday after the sessions, although that's not set in stone yet.

Ill update this as things progress and/or get set up. If you're interested in any kind of a group get together, post up! :)

Ways to contact me:

Email: arm@dalpos.com

ARMaller@gmail.com

Skype: arm@dalpos.com

AIM: Roadspoet

MSN: armDPA@hotmail.com

Pics of Model / Project continued...

The Food Court. :) The Food Court was fun to model in Revit, as it came about pretty late in the project. It originally wasn't in this location, and it looked nothing like this. As you can see, the FC originated from one of the typical Canopy Concourses. I think it was a great example of what Revit can do. Typically, when drafting in AutoCAD, i would have just done a "Save as" and ripped in to it. With a phased model, i was slowly turning the model back in time, before making the alterations


Another fun aspect (for me, in a masochistic way) was the floor tiling in this area. While arranging the floor tiles and the pattern around the GFRC's, we made good use of Revit and HatchKit. We assembled the tile patterns in Hatchkit, and modeled the tiles in as floors, to see how the patterns would mesh across the length of the Food Court. The real photograph doesn't show it, because they had the tiles covered up, but they followed the modeled tile pan almost to the 'T', only deviating by splitting a few tiles to compensate for an EJ, and in one other area where 2 rows of 4" tiles had to be made in to a single row, plus two rows of half tiles, to get the extra joint space.

While on site, i was checking out the FC, and someone saw me with the tile drawing, and they complemented us on it, saying it made laying out the tiles very easy for them. HatchKit was a life saver for this, with Revit. I wasn't patient enough to figure out the txt file for making the tile.pat's. HatchKit was great, and paid for itself in less than an hour of use, imho. If its drafting tools within the program get updated in the new release to be a LITTLE more friendly, i think it will be a huge asset. Currently its lacking a few things like Circular lines, and the snap feature is a little awkward. Still WELL worth the hassle.



*(Here is the Food Court with the seating installed...)


Here is a shot from the wings, where the actual vendors are. (My left side is to them, but there wasn't much to see there yet).


Its tough to see it all, as they didn't have power yet...









You can get the idea here... BTW, parametric Families and scheduling FOR THE WIN, when it comes to something like Seating. A chair in a table family (shared), plus a parametric Bar that automatically adds stools and counts them as the bar gets dragged longer... Such simple little tools that make seating counts so much easier. I know this can also be accomplished with an Area plan and a Calc. value (as shown at AU06), but we had the furniture selected, so why not ...






Here's a shot of the typical Corner Tower from up on the roof. Nothing exciting going on here, but this made me wonder about my other post on "Punchlisting with the Revit Model." This entire project made me think about that, especially as we get in to the concept of a revit model for the LIFE cycle of a building, and not just for construction. For that to work, i believe its important to have an accurate model when the building is completed. Its a minor issue, that the Access door got placed on the opposite side of the tower as was called for in the plans, but it gets me to wondering if there isn't a better way to document these changes in the field, other than writing them out in horribly scribbled shorthand, only to return home, retype them, and then tear through the model updating things to their as-built condition.








I know the better answer is right in front of our faces, i just haven't seen it yet. Between our export and import capabilities, and the API, there's got to be a better way.

I have a bunch more, but i haven't gotten all the model images yet. Its just more of the same though, so ill stop, hehe.

Here's the final shot from the site... Its the existing Mall next door, part of which was a part of this phase, and the piece you're looking at is the entire NEXT phase of construction, which we just wrapped up the Revit model for. That is what the Mall used to look like, with a normal roof over the concourse. (That's just the

temporary wall where they already demo'd a wing of the mall, however). Photo take from the roof of the new building next door, part of the phase included with all the pics above...

Here's the same area from the model. That line in the roof right by the Canopy End Wall, that's where the temporary wall is in the real photo. We used Phasing on this one... Worked great, until the model got too big for some of our stations to handle it. We learned a lot from it, and i cant wait for the next one.

Lots to go still! :)

Pics of the Project / Model finally...

So in my last post i was getting ready to head down to Orlando for the punch list... Lemme tell you, it was HOT. It had to be 100 degrees, and we were up on the white roofs, yow! Needless to say, i came back tan. :) I got some great shots of the mall, even though heavy rains caused some delays on site during the last few weeks...

After coming home, i took a quick shot at approximating some of the pictures i took from our Revit model. I was personally surprised, when i arrived there, at how much it looked JUST like the model. When i used to do AutoCAD documents, i used to always think the projects looked different... But maybe that's because i never saw the projects in 3d beforehand then. Flat 2D elevations are a pet peeve of mine. A necessary thing in Construction Documents, perhaps... But looking at presentation images in the flat 2D realm... gah! Dont get me started. :)

I withheld the rendered images, as it wasn't in our scope, so we didn't have proper materials and textures applied. I have a few renderings where everything is simply a couple of soft colors, so the clients could see it in something other than wireframe... But its a lot of time to get all the images rendered.

Here is the Vending Alcove the occurs at a few places throughout the project.

We modeled these a few different ways, as the project went on. A few of them looked better than the image represented from our model, but this is the actual location in the picture.

Ive discovered modeling areas like this just takes some good communication throughout the project team. IE- If the wall is changing finishes, something in the wall itself should change. Either split face and paint, or use a different wall type (with a different finish material with the appropriate surface pattern, etc.

For the most part though, it worked well. The one pictured was much better explained in the documents, with Detail Lines/Items showing the differentiation in materials, which is lacking in modeled items here. But, i wanted to approximate the camera angle as best i could, so i gave up the Detail items...

Here is a shot of a typical Concourse taken from up on the roof. The GFRC's are missing from the End Wall of this particular location, I'm guessing because they still need to get the generators out of there... In the far left you can see the light fixtures mounted to light up the canopy roof. We modeled these lights working with the Electrical Engineer to verify that they couldn't be seen when standing in the upright position (not shown). We didn't put them in every canopy in the model, so they aren't shown in the modeled image. We used the widest concourse to project a worst case scenario for visibility...

This particular Canopy also represents an Expansion Joint where the Renovated Existing Building meets part of the new addition, which were different projects. As that's the case, this also represents the joint between two of our Models. We used Revit's Phasing capabilities where possible, but in this case the scopes of work remained completely separate, and simply juxtaposed.

We modeled in the structure for the canopy as it was an architectural feature. Our structural engineers were also working in a 3D model using RISA3D, but unfortunately this was not a collaborative 3D project. We transmitted documents and coordinate through 2D export to DWG. Hopefully next time we can take advantage of some better methodology... I would have loved to have brought their model and ours in to Navisworks Jetstream...

Here is a shot of a typical corner condition at one of the Concourses. This tower assembly was both a great learning exercise, and a great opportunity to play around with new features in RAC 2008 (near the end of the project, haha). I built one of these towers immediately after first learning Revit, and until "Wall by face of mass" occurred to me, making the chamfered wall corners was a pain! DOH!

This tower condition occurs about 10 times throughout the 5 Revit models. Once we upgraded to RAC 2008, i took the opportunity to use the new Group features to assemble this tower in its own RVT file, as a group. This brings up another interesting point (for me, anyway):

The groups, and the ability to transfer large assemblies built out of System Families is great... As long as all of your System families are congruent across multiple files. As i mentioned in one of my first posts, this troubles me. If i have a wall assembly in each project, that are the same physically, but are named differently, this becomes a nightmare (in my opinion). 2 or 3 different versions of the same walls, which generate Warnings if they have the same Type Mark, plus its redundant work to update things. So now, i place the Group in to a neutral blank file, and then also copy and paste the wall types and other system families from both projects (or all projects involved) and make sure the items in the group are appropriate for the project I'm shoving it in to. It seems tedious, but well worth it from a file maintenance perspective. In the last phase of the project, after the CD's were done, we swapped from Stl/Mtl Stud to Tilt-up Concrete, and not having duplicate wall types made it much more efficient of a change.

Continued in next post, because the formatting of this entry gets tweaked everytime i paste a picture, lol...

Revit Model and Punch List...

So im flying down to Orlando Monday, and ill be there through Thursday. I'm going down with a few other people to complete a punch list on the project I've been working on for about 18 months.

As far as it pertains to Revit, I'm hoping to grab a lot of pictures so that i can compare with the Revit model I've been a part of creating, i think it will be great to see the side by sides, even if we didn't Render our model with accurate color schemes for the real project.

Then, i got to thinking about the actual punch list, as myself and the crew going down got to talking about organizing what items we need to check. Now, I've got my Toshiba Tecra M7 Tablet laptop, with Revit on it, that ill be taking with me. Obviously we aren't all taking computer hardware with us in to the field for 3 days, but it got me thinking:

First, a disclaimer- I love technology, obviously. Ive had a lot of conversations, however, hinging around the subject matter of technology as more of a liability than an asset. RE: What happens to our overly-connected-lifestyles when/if the technology craze explodes? But i digress, its here for now, and I'm enjoying it.

Anyway, the model and our Punch list: As we move on and on with revit, I've been trying to incorporate more features that i pick up from the AUGI boards and elsewhere in to our implementations. Obviously, Filters are a great tool. In my latest Model for the Orlando project, I've been working in RAC 2008, which I'm loving so far. A few simple filters have made the documentation a breeze. I needed to space plan for a few rooms that are "by others, at a later date," and filters were great for this. No confusing the Contractors with the information (Filter on, set to not visible), but its there for dimensioning in working views where i need it (Filter on, Graphic overridden to Hidden line Style). Its amazing what you can do with a simple entry in to the comments field of every object to read "Others".

We have a similar filter for Fire Rating: Graphic Override Filter for objects with a Fire Rating, and its a nice Plan to make sure our Fire rating Envelope is everywhere it needs to be.

This got me to thinking about this weeks trip: It could obviously be done with a simple Parameter field or two, such as (yes/no type: "PUNCH LIST OK" and text type: "DESCRIPTION"). I could walk the job site, broad stroke selecting items and checking the yes/no in their properties, and typing in the descriptions for faults as we moved along. A few simple views set up with Filters to only show the objects with a "no" in the field, and a few schedules, and we have a quick way to document the Punch List in our model. (To be specific, i would probably use a filter to NOT show the objects with a YES in the field... This way you'll get any objects you missed during the visit/data entry).

I'm sure the API could make this even slicker, because lets be honest. A tablet running on battery with a 200 MB Central File opened is going to last about how long... 2 hours tops? Plus, selecting objects with a tablet pen in the heat and accessing the properties dialogue could get cumbersome. But i can imagine it! Maybe the objects to be punch list-ed get certain parameters, to be scheduled, and maybe its gets exported to some 3rd party simpleton software. If you wanted to dumb it down, I'm sure Excel could handle it... But id prefer it be something ala PDF / DWF viewer, so you could scan the model or plans while you worked. You select with the tablet pen, and click the "okay" tool button, and it marks those items as completed, and at the end of the day, through an API function it back loads that parameter data back in to the model.

It goes without saying, i am a very lousy code writer. If i wasn't, id try it. I'm sure someone out there could do this with ease though, its not very complex at all. Imagine how much easier to convey what work is still not completed. Open a 3D view, activate the filter for "PUNCH LIST 07-09-2007" and see whats on the screen. Send a few images and a schedule down to the field...

Alright, enough from me. Long posts, no images... that's no fun! :)

Classes at Autodesk University...

I attended AU2006 at The Venetian in las Vegas, and everything about the experience was great. I met a lot of great people, loved the atmosphere and the energy of the presentations, and i was and am looking forward to going back this year.

Its been a big year for me, having just started with Revit 18 months ago. ive come a long way, and have been helping people along in our office as best i can, as well as fighting hard to (try) and get a Revit program started at the Local universities.

Much to my disappointment, i will not be making a Lecture debut at AU07 this November. I had a couple of proposals in, as i just love to teach and i find the methodlogies surrounding BIM and Revit to be extremely fun conversation pieces to discuss. Still, i can imagine the number and quality of the proposals from very talented people had to be extremely high, and so i am greatly looking forward to seeing the selections when they are released.

I am absoultely hoping that if i cant be there in an teaching capacity, that i can make a convincing argument to go back this year, and sponge from the best of the best. :)

Congrats to everyone who had a proposal accepted, i cant wait to see the class lists. :)